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Inspiration

Biodiversity as Biosecurity: HowFungi Protect Ecosystems

Paul Stamets
Paul Stamets
Sep 8, 2014
8 min de leitura

In this 2014 interview, mycologist Paul Stamets argues that mycelial networks—the fine, cobweb-like fungal structures that permeate soils—function as Earth's biological internet, linking plant communities and enabling nutrient exchange and chemical communication between trees. With 40% of soil biomass being fungal and humans currently in the sixth mass extinction (losing approximately 30,000 species per year), Stamets contends that fungal biodiversity is not merely an environmental concern but a biosecurity issue. He presents mushrooms as allies in food security, medicine, and ecosystem remediation, while warning that the loss of soil microbiota through habitat destruction threatens the foundation of all terrestrial food webs.

Leitura · 9 seções

Why Are Fungi So Understudied Despite Their Central Role in Nature?

Stamets traces his attraction to mycology to the fundamental mystery surrounding mushrooms. Mushrooms occupy a unique ecological space: they are potent—capable of killing, feeding, curing, or intoxicating—yet humans have far less cumulative experience with them than with animals or plants. Most fleshy mushrooms are ephemeral, visible for only four or five days before disappearing, which limits human familiarity and scientific investigation. The perennial wood-decay fungi (polypores and conks) have a longer history of human interaction, and thus more documented applications.

The gap in fungal knowledge is striking when one considers the sheer biomass at stake. Stamets emphasizes that approximately 40% of soil biomass is fungal, and roughly 70% of soil microbes are fungal organisms. These are not peripheral players—they are foundational. Yet because fungi live mostly underground or fruit briefly, they remain "understudied" relative to visible kingdoms. This knowledge gap is consequential because mycelial networks, though only one cell wall thick, are among the largest and most complex organisms on the planet.

What Is Mycelium, and How Does It Connect Ecosystems?

Mycelium is the vegetative part of a fungus—a network of fine cells that grows through soil and organic matter. To understand what it is, Stamets offers a simple exercise: find a piece of wood on the ground, tip it over, and observe the white, threadlike filaments coating its underside. Those filaments are mycelium.

The scale of mycelial networks is almost incomprehensible. The largest known organism on Earth is not a blue whale or a redwood tree, but a mycelial mat of honey mushroom in eastern Oregon, measuring 2,200 acres in size. Despite its vast extent, the mycelium remains only one cell wall thick—an extraordinary feat of biological engineering. On the other side of that fragile cell wall are hundreds of millions of microbes attempting to consume it, yet the mycelium persists and expands.

These networks connect entire forests. They serve as what Stamets calls "Earth's natural internet," a system for bidirectional nutrient transfer that supports plant communities. Unlike the human internet, the mycelial network is generative; it does not merely transmit information but actively nourishes the organisms it connects. When plants exchange nutrients via mycorrhizal fungi, both the fungus and the plant benefit—a classic mutualistic alliance.

How Do Trees Communicate Threats Through Mycelial Networks?

Beyond nutrient exchange, mycelial networks facilitate chemical communication between plants. When a plant is under attack by insects or facing other predation, it releases chemical signals that travel through the mycelium to adjacent plants, alerting them to the threat. This "wood wide web," as some researchers call it, allows plants to mount preemptive defensive responses before a predator arrives.

Stamets notes with some sadness that science is only now discovering mechanisms that have evolved over millions of years. The mycelium is simultaneously a nutritional highway and an early-warning system—dual functions that illustrate why the loss of fungal diversity threatens not only food production but the communication networks that hold ecosystems together.

Why Is Fungal Biodiversity a Matter of Biosecurity?

Stamets frames biodiversity loss not as an abstract environmental concern but as an acute biosecurity threat. He draws a striking parallel: if an asteroid 60 feet in diameter were on a collision course with Earth, all nations would mobilize to divert it. Yet humanity is currently experiencing a "proverbial asteroid"—the sixth mass extinction event in Earth's history. The planet harbors approximately 8.3 million species, and humans are eliminating roughly 30,000 species per year. At this rate, in 100 years more than one-third of the planet's biodiversity will be gone.

As habitats are destroyed—particularly old-growth forests and wetlands—the mycelial networks that sustain food webs erode "underneath our feet." The loss is not confined to charismatic megafauna. The microbes in soil, about which science has only preliminary knowledge, are disappearing at rates that will destabilize agriculture and human nutrition. Stamets stresses that "we are a community"—humans exist as symbiotic assemblies of roughly 10 trillion bacterial cells to 1 trillion human cells. Plants, soils, and all terrestrial organisms operate similarly. As we dismantle the microbial communities that underpin these relationships, we jeopardize not only other species but ourselves.

What Specific Mushrooms Offer Medicinal and Practical Benefits?

During the interview, Stamets brings three mushroom specimens to illustrate the range of fungal applications. The first is Agarikon (Fomitopsis officinalis), one of North America's rarest polypores, found only in old-growth forests. Prized for over 2,000 years, it once flourished in Europe but disappeared as forests were cut down and its habitat vanished. Research submitted to the biodefense program after 9/11 identified Agarikon as a potent source of antiviral compounds effective against pox and flu viruses.

The second is Turkey Tail (Trametes versicolor), which was the subject of a 2.2 million dollar NIH breast cancer clinical trial. Turkey Tail was found to upregulate the immune system and, when used in combination with chemotherapy, enhanced the positive effects of cancer treatment.

The third is Amadou (Fomes fomentarius), also known as the tinder conch. This fungus enabled the portability of fire—a critical survival tool for ancestral human communities. Before matches and lighters, the fire keeper of a tribe carried amadou to preserve embers and prevent the loss of fire, which was essential for keeping the clan alive through winters and migrations. Stamets himself wears a hat made from amadou, a tangible connection to this ancient technology.

How Can Fungi Help Remediate Pollutants and Restore Ecosystems?

Beyond food and medicine, fungi offer solutions for ecosystem restoration and pollution cleanup. Stamets mentions the "Life Box," an innovation designed to help re-establish forests and clean up contaminated sites. While the full details are not elaborated in this excerpt, the principle is clear: mycelial networks are capable of breaking down pollutants and toxins that would otherwise persist in soil and water.

This remediation capacity flows from the mycelium's role in decomposition cycles. Fungi are nature's primary decomposers—they break down dead organic matter and, in doing so, also consume certain synthetic pollutants. By deploying fungal cultures strategically, humans can accelerate the detoxification of contaminated land. Stamets emphasizes that one practical first step is straightforward: don't throw away your wood. Leaving dead wood to decompose in place supports the mycelial networks that restore soil health and sequester carbon.

What Is the Connection Between Human DNA and Fungal Evolution?

Stamets touches on a profound evolutionary fact: humans are more closely related genetically to fungi than to plants. This biological kinship suggests that understanding fungi is, in a sense, understanding ourselves. The DNA architecture differs—human DNA is enclosed in a nucleus, while fungal DNA is not—yet the genetic overlap is substantial. This closeness may explain why so many fungal compounds interact beneficially with human physiology and immunity. It is not coincidental that fungi produce medicines effective in human bodies; the relationship is evolutionary, rooted in shared metabolic pathways.

What Does Stamets' Worldview Suggest About Humanity's Role in Nature?

Stamets frames his work not from a secular scientific stance alone but from a conviction that the interconnectedness of nature is "not an accident." He grew up in a highly religious household and sees the mycelial networks and the complexity of life as expressions of intelligence or design embedded in natural systems. This perspective informs his urgency: if the natural world is deeply organized and purposeful, then dismantling it carelessly is not merely wasteful—it is a denial of the very intelligence that sustains us.

The solution, in Stamets' view, lies in recognizing fungi as allies rather than curiosities. By understanding mycelial networks as biological infrastructure, by protecting old-growth forests that harbor rare species like Agarikon, and by deploying fungal remediation techniques in polluted regions, humanity can shift from being a destructive force to a partner in ecosystem restoration. Biodiversity, then, is not a luxury or an aesthetic concern—it is the security system upon which human survival depends.

Where to Go From Here

If Stamets' argument resonates, the implications are clear: study fungi seriously, support the protection of old-growth forests, and recognize soil health as a national priority comparable to food security or defense infrastructure. Stamets' books, including Mycelium Running: How Mushrooms Can Help Save the World, offer deeper exploration of fungal applications. His work with organizations like the North American Mycological Association has also opened mycology to amateurs, democratizing knowledge that was once confined to specialists. For those interested in practical action, learning to identify edible and medicinal fungi in your region, composting to support local mycelial networks, and advocating for old-growth forest protection are tangible steps toward the biodiversity resilience Stamets describes as essential to our collective future.

Transcript

[0:01] [Music]

[0:07] welcome to tonight's conversations of

[0:09] great minds with paul stamets

[0:11] paul is an inventor researcher

[0:13] entrepreneur and has been a practicing

[0:14] mycologist for over thirty years

[0:17] is discovered and co-authored four new

[0:20] species of mushrooms

[0:21] and pioneered numerous techniques in the

[0:23] field of edible and medicinal

[0:25] mushroom cultivation paul was named

[0:27] twenty fourteen invention ambassador by

[0:30] the american

[0:30] association for the advancement of

[0:32] science and received the highly

[0:33] acclaimed

[0:34] twenty thirteen n a m a north american

[0:37] mycology association

[0:38] uh award for expanding the field of

[0:40] mycology for both amateurs and

[0:42] professionals

[0:44] paul's latest book my silly i'm running

[0:45] how mushrooms can help save the world

[0:48] talks about the planetary healing powers

[0:50] of mycelium

[0:51] paul joins us now from san francisco

[0:53] paul welcome

[0:55] great to have you with us thank uh thank

[0:57] you i you've got some

[0:59] uh some props there with you you have

[1:01] you have mushrooms with you you want to

[1:02] tell us about them

[1:04] well sure i brought three different

[1:06] mushrooms with me these are poly pore

[1:07] mushrooms uh

[1:09] they they're also called wood conks so

[1:11] they're more perennial

[1:12] this is uh one of the rarest mushrooms

[1:14] uh in north america it

[1:16] only grows in the old growth forest it's

[1:18] called aguero con

[1:20] this mushroom has been abused by humans

[1:23] for over two thousand years it used to

[1:24] be uh

[1:26] prevalent in europe but since they cut

[1:27] down the trees they lost the habitat

[1:30] this mushroom was the subject of

[1:32] research that we submitted to the

[1:33] bioshield biodefense program

[1:35] after 9 11 and was found to be a source

[1:38] of very very potent anti-viral

[1:40] compounds active against pox and flu

[1:42] viruses

[1:45] this mushroom here is called turkey tail

[1:47] and

[1:48] we had a successful 2.2 million dollar

[1:51] nih

[1:52] breast cancer a clinical trial

[1:55] and this mushroom was found to be very

[1:57] potent in up regulating the immune

[1:58] system

[1:59] and in combination with chemotherapy

[2:01] enhance the effects the positive effects

[2:03] of chemotherapy

[2:04] and then one of my favorite mushrooms is

[2:06] this one called amadou and

[2:08] my hat is made from amadou and this

[2:11] mushroom is called the tinder conch

[2:13] it allowed for the portability of fire

[2:15] and our ancestors

[2:16] uh not too long ago uh you didn't have

[2:19] bic lighters and matches

[2:20] and this would help keep the clan alive

[2:22] because the fire keeper of the tribe

[2:24] had a very important rule to carry the

[2:27] carry fire

[2:28] and there's no doubt that we all came

[2:29] from africa and we went north we found

[2:31] something new called winter

[2:33] and this mushroom allowed for the

[2:34] portability fire and helped keep our

[2:36] ancestors

[2:36] alive remarkable so paul let let me

[2:39] start at the beginning what

[2:40] what got you into my college into the

[2:43] study of the son of the son

[2:45] study mushrooms the science mushrooms

[2:47] well i was always attracted to that

[2:49] which was forbidden

[2:51] and i was always curious of people's

[2:53] strong reactions about mushrooms

[2:56] and it speaks to the fact that you know

[2:58] most mushrooms are fleshy mushrooms

[3:00] they're very temporary

[3:01] they're in the visual viewscape for a

[3:04] few days four or five days

[3:05] and then they disappear and mushrooms

[3:08] that can kill you that can feed you that

[3:11] can cure you

[3:12] that can get you high something that's

[3:13] so potent like that

[3:15] but we have such a limited experience

[3:17] with them compared to

[3:18] animals and plants we have a long

[3:20] exposure we have lots of time to learn

[3:23] their properties

[3:24] and these other mushrooms come and

[3:25] disappear very very quickly so

[3:28] there was a area of science that was

[3:30] understudied

[3:31] and yet most people may not know that

[3:34] forty percent

[3:34] of the biomass of soils is fungal

[3:38] and seventy percent of soils uh

[3:40] approximately the microbes and soils are

[3:42] also fungal

[3:43] so these are the very foundation of the

[3:45] food web and these mycelial networks are

[3:47] fine

[3:48] cobwebby-like membranes that permeate

[3:51] all landscapes

[3:52] and these are called the fruit bodies

[3:53] like an apple is to an apple tree this

[3:55] is the reproductive structure

[3:56] so they surface and they produce these

[3:59] these mushrooms and spores

[4:01] come and and and fly around and then

[4:03] they quickly disappear

[4:05] these on the other hand are more

[4:06] perennial and so our ancestors have

[4:08] had a longer history of experience with

[4:10] them and so we know a lot more about

[4:11] them

[4:12] what is masilian mycelium mycelium

[4:16] is the fine cobwebby substance and

[4:18] anyone listening can go out to find a

[4:20] piece of stick on the ground and

[4:21] or a piece of wood and tip it over

[4:23] you'll see mycelium it's a network

[4:25] of fine cells and these networks that

[4:27] can be incredibly large

[4:29] the largest organism in the world known

[4:31] so far

[4:32] is a mycelial mat in eastern oregon of a

[4:35] honey mushroom

[4:36] 2200 acres in size and yet they're only

[4:39] one cell wall thick on the other side of

[4:41] the cell wall or hundreds of millions of

[4:43] other microbes trying to consume it and

[4:44] yet this thing these

[4:46] these micellar networks can be vast and

[4:48] they connect the forests and they're

[4:49] really a form of earth's natural

[4:51] internet and they

[4:52] bi-directionally move nutrients to

[4:54] support plant communities

[4:56] do they in addition nutrients do they

[4:58] communicate i i've read about you know

[5:00] trees communicating with each other by

[5:02] by releasing uh the equivalent of

[5:05] pheromones or hormones or

[5:07] chemicals that are it like screams

[5:09] essentially

[5:10] excellent excellent question and there's

[5:12] been a number of research projects and

[5:13] it gives me somewhat

[5:15] uh i'm a little sad about this that

[5:16] we're just discovering this now

[5:18] but through the mycorrhizal fungi that

[5:20] join the root zones

[5:21] if a plant is being attacked by an

[5:23] insect or there's other type of

[5:27] other type of predation then via the

[5:30] mycelium

[5:31] it alerts the adjacent plants that

[5:33] there's a predator on the horizon

[5:35] so these these are essential

[5:36] communication networks

[5:38] as well as nutritional networks wow so

[5:41] it very much is like

[5:42] the internet uh they're even better

[5:44] because the internet doesn't nourish us

[5:46] unless we

[5:47] i guess you know order pizza online uh

[5:49] what do mushrooms in their structure

[5:51] demonstrate about the interconnectedness

[5:52] of nature paul

[5:55] well you know we have live in a very

[5:58] fragile ecosystem

[5:59] we are here today because very smart

[6:01] choices on the evolutionary path

[6:03] i'm paul stamets but i'm ten trillion

[6:06] bacterial cells

[6:07] to one trillion approximately human

[6:10] cells

[6:10] now the bacterial cells the mass is only

[6:12] one or two pounds of bacteria in us

[6:14] relative to my weight but it speaks to

[6:18] the fact that we live in communities of

[6:20] microbes

[6:20] as does the soil as do all plants and so

[6:24] guilds of microbes

[6:25] have allied with each other cooperating

[6:28] saying if you help me

[6:29] i will help you and so these large

[6:31] communities have established themselves

[6:33] in the ecosystems

[6:34] and so we are a community our plants are

[6:37] based on communities and as we lose

[6:39] biodiversity

[6:41] we are facing some very big challenges

[6:44] the food webs are being eroded

[6:45] underneath our feet

[6:47] and we have very little knowledge one of

[6:49] the examples i'd like to give

[6:51] and there was an asteroid that came by

[6:53] the earth yesterday

[6:54] 60 feet in diameter not seen until just

[6:56] the last moment

[6:57] well if there's an asteroid impact

[6:59] coming to at us in 12 months

[7:01] all the nations of the world would

[7:03] gather together to try to divert that

[7:05] asteroid

[7:06] well we do have a proverbial asteroid

[7:08] coming at us very quickly

[7:10] we're entered into 6x the sixth greatest

[7:12] extinction event known in the history of

[7:13] life

[7:14] on this planet we have approximately 8.3

[7:16] million species

[7:17] of of organisms on this planet we're

[7:20] losing about 30

[7:21] 000 species per year 100 years that's

[7:24] more than a third

[7:25] of the biodiversity of this ecosystem

[7:27] that's given us life

[7:28] as we dismantle the ecosystem underneath

[7:30] our feet we are

[7:31] we are jeopardizing not only uh all

[7:34] sorts of other organisms

[7:36] but ourselves and this is a something

[7:38] that i think that

[7:39] people really need to focus on the

[7:41] biology of the soils which we have

[7:43] very preliminary knowledge of um we are

[7:45] we have all the sexy animals like you

[7:47] know

[7:47] giraffes and elephants and tigers and

[7:50] lions and bears

[7:51] of course we know a lot about those but

[7:52] the microbes we know very very little

[7:54] about

[7:55] you say that there is a uh

[7:58] mycological solution for this sixth

[8:01] extinction

[8:03] what is that well

[8:06] um it is there's

[8:09] we we suffer from overpopulation i think

[8:11] everybody agrees with that with

[8:13] overpopulation we have habitats being

[8:16] destroyed and we lose

[8:17] biodiversity we have a pollution

[8:20] and we have climate change these are all

[8:23] stressors on the ecosystem

[8:25] and as we lose our organic debris and

[8:28] our humus and our soils

[8:29] we're dismantling the food webs that

[8:31] give us life the fungi

[8:33] break down plant material and uh and

[8:36] render

[8:37] more nutrients uh to other adjacent

[8:39] plants and the decomposition cycles spin

[8:42] off all sorts of nutrient cycles that

[8:44] give rise to

[8:45] myriad populations of organisms that

[8:47] help the biodiversity

[8:48] the more biodiversity is biosecurity

[8:51] the more biodiverse the ecosystem is the

[8:54] better it is able

[8:56] to respond to catastrophia to to

[9:00] to human impacts to pollution impacts

[9:03] and as we erode

[9:04] the soil system we only have 10 percent

[9:07] of the wood debris in the forest now

[9:10] than we did just a few hundred years ago

[9:12] so ninety percent of that soil

[9:14] uh has been uh denatured and the

[9:17] ecosystem now is being stressed out and

[9:18] the rule of nature

[9:20] is that when a organism exceeds the

[9:22] carrying capacity of its ecosystem

[9:24] then diseases spread and so now we have

[9:27] entered into a period of viral storms

[9:29] we have massive amounts of pollution we

[9:31] have water quality issues

[9:33] now we have water wars that are

[9:35] developing and this is because the

[9:36] mycelium holds water in the soil

[9:39] and most people don't realize this but

[9:41] when this wood is decomposed

[9:42] a major byproduct of wood decomposing is

[9:45] water

[9:46] and so the mycelium nourishes and gives

[9:48] water to the ecosystem to the benefit

[9:50] of the myriad other organisms and this

[9:53] is

[9:54] it's all hands on deck moment we really

[9:56] need to step to the forefront

[9:57] and be able to develop biodiverse

[10:01] agriculture not monoculture we need to

[10:03] reinvest in the biodiversity of the

[10:05] ecosystem because ultimately that's the

[10:06] safest route for us

[10:08] how do we do that well we do that by

[10:12] by putting wood chips on the ground by

[10:15] gardening

[10:16] by planting diverse species in our

[10:18] landscapes

[10:20] by trying to avoid going into

[10:22] monoculture agricultural systems by

[10:24] engaging permacultural models

[10:29] and i'd like to recommend everybody that

[10:30] they join a mycological society the

[10:32] the mother society is called the north

[10:34] american mycological association

[10:36] it's a non-profit it's uh namico.org

[10:40] n-a-m-y-c-o dot o-r-g

[10:42] you join one of the the the north

[10:44] american mycological association

[10:46] they can help steer you to all sorts of

[10:48] other experts and

[10:49] it's tons of fun you go out it's like a

[10:51] it's like an easter egg hunt

[10:52] for adults and for children indeed many

[10:55] elderly adults have told me their

[10:57] favorite memories of being with their

[10:58] family

[10:59] when they were kids hunting mushrooms

[11:00] you're away from the phone you're away

[11:01] from the business

[11:02] you have direct communication with your

[11:04] parents and you have that eureka moment

[11:06] which is an endorphin rush and uh when

[11:08] you find something in the woods that's

[11:10] just

[11:10] you know so rare or so wonderful or so

[11:12] delicious you know you're rewarded and

[11:16] it's really enticing it's a wonderful

[11:17] lifestyle i highly recommend it to

[11:19] everybody

[11:20] wow you're the inventor of the life box

[11:22] what is that

[11:25] lifebox was my reinvention of the

[11:28] cardboard box to try to

[11:30] um simply all have too many cardboard

[11:34] boxes and we shipped them the delivery

[11:35] system's already been paid for

[11:36] so i impregnated the sheets of cardboard

[11:39] with

[11:40] beneficial fungi and seeds and so as

[11:43] every

[11:44] box that could be shipped essentially

[11:46] could be an ecological footprint to

[11:47] re-establish a forest

[11:49] and so my idea was to reforest you know

[11:52] the world through life boxes

[11:54] since there is no additional weight and

[11:56] then i'll teach kids

[11:57] about biodiversity they can grow the

[11:59] trees and then when their grandparents

[12:01] they can walk into a forest that was

[12:03] planted by a lifebox when they were a

[12:04] kid

[12:05] and they can teach their children

[12:06] generationally about the importance of

[12:08] reforestation

[12:09] wow is this is this a product that's out

[12:11] there right now

[12:14] the product is out there right now but

[12:16] it's been a labor of love

[12:18] and it's something that has been limping

[12:21] along

[12:22] and i've got lots of excited people

[12:24] about it but

[12:25] the bottom line is that the purchasers

[12:28] of uh

[12:29] in these large companies they want to

[12:31] compete against a plain brown cardboard

[12:33] box

[12:34] right yeah that's a tough one

[12:37] we'll pick up this conversation right

[12:38] after this break more of tonight's

[12:40] conversations with great minds with paul

[12:42] stamets

[12:42] after this break

[12:52] welcome back to tonight's conversations

[12:54] with great minds with paul stamets

[12:56] paul's been a practicing mycologist for

[12:58] over 30 years he's discovered 40 species

[13:01] of mushrooms and pioneered

[13:02] numerous techniques in the field of

[13:04] edible and medicinal mushroom

[13:05] cultivation

[13:06] paul's latest book i silly i'm running

[13:08] how mushrooms can help save the world

[13:10] talks about the planetary healing powers

[13:13] of mycelium let's get back to it

[13:15] um paul you've talked about universal

[13:17] truths in nature

[13:19] what are some of these truths well

[13:22] um the ability to adapt to change

[13:25] is the uh is the wedge of evolution

[13:29] and it's really important that you're

[13:30] able to adapt very quickly and

[13:32] intelligently

[13:34] network-based organisms which is what

[13:36] mycelium is

[13:37] has the ability to constantly uh change

[13:40] it towards the circumstances when the

[13:42] mycelium grows out

[13:43] and the width of this table here there

[13:45] can literally be

[13:47] millions of end branchings that are

[13:49] constantly forking

[13:50] and the nuclei stream to the tips and if

[13:53] there is uh

[13:54] as there's a new toxin a new food source

[13:57] a new insect a new piece of wood

[13:59] a new potential food source if there's a

[14:01] reassortment of nuclei

[14:03] a new enzyme can be produced and digest

[14:06] that potential food source if that

[14:08] happens then the network

[14:10] is information flows backwards into the

[14:13] mother mycelium and so these are

[14:14] learning membranes

[14:16] they're sentient they're aware they're

[14:18] highly adaptive

[14:19] so the universal truths that i see in

[14:21] nature

[14:22] is the organization of the universe dark

[14:24] matter

[14:26] and dark energy mycelium neurons

[14:30] our brain are all based on these vast

[14:33] networks that have multiple pathways

[14:35] should one of them get interrupted

[14:36] there's an alternative pathway as

[14:38] opposed to a linear system

[14:40] if there's an interruption then the

[14:41] organism could be killed or stopped

[14:43] so the adaptiveness of network design is

[14:46] something that i think will find

[14:47] pervasive throughout the universe

[14:49] i believe that this is my own personal

[14:51] belief i grew up in a highly religious

[14:52] environment

[14:53] but my personal belief is matter begets

[14:56] life

[14:56] life is for first single organisms

[14:58] single organs become strings strings

[15:00] then

[15:01] fork chains are produced membranes are

[15:03] produced

[15:04] and this is the way of life i think

[15:06] throughout the cosmos we'll find network

[15:08] based organisms elsewhere in the

[15:09] universe

[15:10] this is not an accident i think this is

[15:12] just the way of life

[15:13] i think you're absolutely right um how

[15:16] are humans

[15:18] i mean most people know that we have a

[15:19] relationship with bacteria if

[15:21] nothing other than seen ads on t v for

[15:24] probiotics

[15:25] but going beyond bacteria to fund fungi

[15:28] or fung

[15:29] am i pronouncing that correctly uh this

[15:31] there's four

[15:32] four correct pronunciations all of them

[15:34] are correct okay great thank you

[15:36] um how are humans interrelated with

[15:39] mushrooms well

[15:40] excellent question um well we diverged

[15:43] from fungi about 650 million years ago

[15:46] in fact a group of scientists 23 of them

[15:49] published an article

[15:50] about three years ago correcting a new

[15:52] erecting a new super kingdom called a

[15:54] paisley kanta

[15:56] a paisley kandahar joins fungi and

[15:58] animals together

[15:59] we have a more common ancestry with

[16:01] fungi than we do with any other kingdom

[16:03] in fact it can be said that our

[16:05] ancestors were proto

[16:07] were protofungal uh we evolved from the

[16:09] very very same

[16:10] ancestors that our modern fungi have

[16:13] evolved from

[16:14] and we exhale carbon dioxide so do fungi

[16:18] we

[16:18] inhale oxygen soda fungi our best

[16:21] antibiotics against bacteria

[16:22] come from fungi but we have very few

[16:25] good anti-fungal antibiotics because

[16:27] we're so closely related

[16:28] as eukaryotic organisms

[16:32] to our fungal ancestors so that's that's

[16:34] some examples but it's very interesting

[16:36] and as we selected out the microbiome

[16:39] bacteria that makes us healthy fungal

[16:43] networks have done the same

[16:44] in nature so they predispose populations

[16:47] of bacteria

[16:48] and other organisms that help the plant

[16:50] communities to give rise to plants and

[16:52] the forest to create the debris fields

[16:54] that feed the mycelium

[16:55] these are deterministic in their uh in

[16:58] their organization

[16:59] uh and they select communities that

[17:01] benefit their own progeny

[17:02] so this is this is a really something

[17:04] that's so important for us to understand

[17:06] is biodiversity is biosecurity and we

[17:09] are here today because of the

[17:10] biodiversity that we

[17:12] have and when you take antibiotics you

[17:14] not only

[17:15] kill the bacterium or the infections

[17:17] infectious organism that you're

[17:18] targeting

[17:19] but you also massively did disrupt the

[17:22] microflora in your gut

[17:24] and so this is why the rampant use of

[17:27] antibiotics is causing all sorts of

[17:28] downstream medical implications that are

[17:30] very very serious

[17:31] you mentioned eukaryotic what does that

[17:33] mean

[17:34] eukaryotic organisms are what we are we

[17:37] have a nucleus

[17:38] uh and that defines what a eukaryote is

[17:41] uh

[17:41] is that our dna is inside of a nucleus

[17:44] and a mitochondria yeah okay yeah

[17:46] yeah essentially two nuclear um you you

[17:50] you quote a quote from you i believe

[17:51] habitats

[17:53] and inhabitants share immune systems and

[17:55] mycelium is the

[17:56] cellular bridge that governs the two can

[17:59] you explain that

[18:01] well this is what i'm saying is that the

[18:03] the habitats do have immune systems and

[18:06] the healthy

[18:07] healthy habitats speak to the to their

[18:08] healthy immunity

[18:10] when we insult them with a pollutant or

[18:12] a toxin

[18:14] then the the mycelium has to react and

[18:18] and decompose those toxins or else the

[18:20] population that it hosts

[18:21] is in jeopardy in its own progeny is

[18:24] also

[18:24] in jeopardy so mycelium is a cellular

[18:28] bridge that connects all landscapes

[18:30] all plants are part fungi and basically

[18:32] ninety percent of all plants

[18:34] are part fungi this was not known until

[18:36] just recently when biologists would

[18:38] constantly see these fungi

[18:39] under the microscope and wondering all

[18:41] housed as possible

[18:43] and now we know that the endophytic

[18:45] fungi that grow inside of trees inside

[18:47] of plants inside of grasses

[18:49] give a host defense of resistance

[18:50] against pathogens and parasites

[18:53] and so again this speaks to these very

[18:55] complex guilds and communities of

[18:57] cooperators

[18:58] uh that cooperate together in order to

[19:00] force forestall

[19:02] uh pathogens from sleeping into the

[19:03] landscape and changing the very nature

[19:05] of that landscape

[19:06] you know we're the biggest walking

[19:08] catastrophe on this planet

[19:10] and we inflict damage the problem that

[19:12] we face today is

[19:14] the xenobiotic the artificial toxins are

[19:17] being created by humans

[19:18] never in the history of evolution has

[19:20] there been any experience of this

[19:22] there are tens of thousands of new

[19:24] pollutants and toxins

[19:26] the ecosystem is under assault whether

[19:28] its immune system

[19:29] can be able to mitigate all these

[19:30] different pollutants at once

[19:32] is a very very challenging question and

[19:34] i'm afraid that the

[19:36] ecosystems are not going to be able to

[19:37] react fast enough unless we start to

[19:39] mitigate

[19:39] the outflow of toxins that are having

[19:42] all this collateral damage

[19:45] biomimicry is a

[19:48] it's kind of an invoke word explain what

[19:51] it means and how

[19:52] it applies to our relationship with

[19:55] mushrooms

[19:57] well by biomimicry um is uh speaks to

[20:01] the fact that

[20:02] um about one of the best examples of the

[20:04] invention of velcro

[20:06] and and the invention of velcro and

[20:09] lots of other things we know about today

[20:11] are modeled after nature

[20:13] and the biomimicry is the scientists now

[20:18] and in that back industry looking at how

[20:20] natural systems have evolved to take

[20:22] care of many of these problems

[20:24] that we're facing i came up with a term

[20:26] not a big giant leap in logic here

[20:28] called micro mimicry and the idea of

[20:31] creating network systems based on our

[20:33] knowledge of how mycelium works and

[20:35] setting up

[20:35] the biosphere and these microbial

[20:37] populations is something i think is also

[20:39] very very useful for us

[20:42] you know this is where a problem that we

[20:44] have

[20:46] science is and the computer sciences and

[20:48] and

[20:49] and astrophysics we know extremely

[20:51] little about soil biology

[20:53] good luck going to mars you're going to

[20:55] have to try to grow

[20:57] you know how how to create soil almost

[21:00] no scientists know how to do that unless

[21:02] they have

[21:03] nature as an inoculum that we can

[21:05] transfer a native soil and create soil

[21:08] but creating a soil from a test tube is

[21:10] not possible

[21:11] because the organisms are what we call

[21:13] immunologically naive

[21:15] that is the baby in the bubble syndrome

[21:17] if you're not this is why kids it's

[21:19] encouraged that kids play in dirt then

[21:20] their immune system needs to be

[21:22] having experiences these microbes

[21:24] connect so it can up regulate

[21:26] the antibodies and become

[21:27] immunologically educated

[21:29] this is the same this is true with soil

[21:31] systems we can't create

[21:33] soil and other planets with the

[21:35] biodiversity that we have seen here on

[21:37] this planet

[21:38] to give us life and so i think rather

[21:40] than going into the stars we better stay

[21:42] home

[21:42] and focus on this beautiful planet that

[21:44] we have right now because it is a jewel

[21:47] we can use it as a model but if we lose

[21:49] the ecosystems we lost the model for

[21:51] being able to populate other

[21:52] planets in the in in the universe what

[21:55] are the

[21:56] uh practical steps that we could be

[21:57] taking right now to use

[21:59] uh mushrooms to address global warming

[22:04] well that's a really good question the

[22:06] mycelium as it builds the humus

[22:09] i gave a talk at ted and al gore came up

[22:12] to me afterwards and said you taught me

[22:13] something i didn't know i thought

[22:15] i was going to respond to that in a

[22:16] sarcastic way but um

[22:18] the the soil as it builds up the humus

[22:21] in the soil the carbon

[22:23] is being sequestered into the soil

[22:25] biosphere it's not being liberated

[22:27] into the atmosphere the mycelium

[22:29] produces cold carbon dioxide

[22:31] but the mycelium is about 85

[22:33] carbohydrates

[22:34] it's extremely heavy in carbon and then

[22:37] as the

[22:38] soil debris and the wood debris builds

[22:40] up in the ecosystem the carbon bank

[22:42] is being built as well so you're not

[22:44] liberating this into the atmosphere are

[22:45] you building a carbon bank within the

[22:47] soil

[22:48] so the the practical things that people

[22:50] can do is don't throw away your wood

[22:52] chips

[22:52] and your grass climate and your grass

[22:55] clippings and then you bring in

[22:56] fertilizer

[22:57] you know you need to decompose that

[22:59] material in situ

[23:01] in your landscape and building up the

[23:02] biosphere in your ecosystem

[23:04] the presence of mushrooms in your yard

[23:06] is a happy sign

[23:08] with a few exceptions but this really

[23:10] means that your ecosystem is thriving

[23:12] uh the decomposition cycles are moving

[23:15] and um

[23:15] everybody should come to terms with

[23:17] fungi one way or the other because

[23:18] they're going to get you in the end

[23:19] yeah the the chicken and egg question

[23:23] here

[23:24] uh we are our soil seems to be dying

[23:27] particularly here in the united states

[23:28] and most people point the finger factory

[23:31] farming monoculture

[23:32] um industrial agricultural practices to

[23:36] remediate that

[23:38] should we be which will

[23:41] bring mycelium back into the soil as you

[23:43] point out and make the soil more

[23:45] resilient and more moist and more carbon

[23:48] dense do we need to inoculate the soil

[23:51] with mycelium or do we need to just

[23:53] you know start doing appropriate

[23:55] agriculture and then the massillium will

[23:56] follow

[23:58] great question um we can be more

[24:00] purposeful now and we need to be

[24:01] purposeful because we don't have time

[24:03] just to have random access

[24:04] of natural fungi leaping to the

[24:07] forefront when we have an immediate

[24:08] issue

[24:09] we received an environmental an epa

[24:11] grant phase one

[24:12] for microfiltration filtering gray water

[24:15] of e coli

[24:16] and we found a mushroom called the

[24:17] garden giant that's exceptionally good

[24:20] at breaking

[24:20] uh capturing e coli cleaning water

[24:23] breaking down the wood chips

[24:24] and it's plant friendly and also

[24:26] produces these compounds that

[24:28] consume nematodes so it's very good for

[24:32] root crops et cetera but that's a real

[24:34] good example

[24:35] of a species we have about 700 species

[24:37] in our culture library

[24:39] we have we grow an enormous amount of

[24:41] mycelium 20 000 kilos of mycelium per

[24:43] week

[24:44] and so we have about seven different uh

[24:47] projects now

[24:48] from lake erie to portland to other uh

[24:51] other regions

[24:52] where we're cleaning up street waste and

[24:54] water does not discriminate between e

[24:56] coli

[24:57] and oil and so you have a convergence of

[24:59] toxins and we create these sheet mulch

[25:01] beds with the mycelium of the garden

[25:03] giant for instance

[25:04] and as it infiltrates through the

[25:06] mycelium the mycelium

[25:07] gobbles up the hydrocarbons and

[25:09] remanufactures them

[25:10] into fungal carbohydrates into sugars

[25:14] and

[25:14] then the extracellular sweat droplets

[25:16] coming from the mycelium

[25:19] all the the invention of penicillin

[25:21] those those break down e coli

[25:23] and then the the fungi consume the

[25:25] equality so

[25:27] this is this is brilliant i'm sorry we

[25:28] just ran out of time we hit the end of

[25:30] the show no worries that was great

[25:32] paul stamets thanks so much for being

[25:33] with us

Paul Stamets
AutorPaul Stamets

Mycologist and advocate who has dedicated his life to studying mushrooms and their transformative potential to heal people and restore the planet through medicine, agriculture, and…

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MyceliumBiodiversitySoil-healthFungal-medicineEcosystem-collapse

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Approximately 40% of soil biomass is fungal, and roughly 70% of soil microbes are fungal organisms. This matters because mycelial networks form the foundation of terrestrial food webs, enabling nutrient cycling and plant communication. Without fungal diversity, ecosystems collapse and food production fails.
Trees communicate through mycorrhizal fungi in the soil. When a tree is under insect attack or facing predation, it sends chemical signals through the mycelium to adjacent plants, alerting them to the threat and allowing them to mount preemptive defensive responses.
The largest known organism is a mycelial mat of honey mushroom in eastern Oregon, spanning 2,200 acres. Despite its vast size, it remains only one cell wall thick, demonstrating the extraordinary scale and fragility of mycelial networks.
Agarikon is a rare polypore with potent antiviral compounds effective against pox and flu viruses. It was the subject of research submitted to the biodefense program after 9/11 and has been valued for over 2,000 years, though it is now endangered due to old-growth forest loss.
Humanity is losing approximately 30,000 species per year, which means more than one-third of planetary biodiversity will disappear in 100 years. Stamets describes this as the sixth mass extinction event and compares it to an asteroid collision that would warrant global mobilization.
Turkey Tail (Trametes versicolor) was tested in a 2.2 million dollar NIH clinical trial for breast cancer. It was found to upregulate the immune system and, when combined with chemotherapy, enhanced the positive therapeutic effects of cancer treatment.
Humans share more genetic similarity with fungi than with plants, even though the relationship is distant. This kinship may explain why fungal compounds interact beneficially with human physiology and immune function—the metabolic pathways are partially shared.

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